Toward A More Constructive Dialogue

[athelind]

I could have phrased Monday night's entry more tactfully, and probably should have. Several people whose opinions I value and respect have noted that accusing those who disagree with you of being stupid, deluded or worse will win no converts and prove no points.

With the outrage and frustration filtered out, what I was really trying to say was, "What are you people thinking??"

On that level, this was not an entirely unsuccessful attempt at communication. Several of you did give some indication of what you've been thinking.

You think, apparently, that George Walker Bush is a "conservative".

Please note that I did not attack the conservative philosophy. I did not claim that one had to be Stupid, Deluded or Corrupt to adhere to conservative ideals. While I disagree with many -- though not all -- conservative positions, while I am in fact far more willing to proudly embrace the label of "Liberal" than any candidate endorsed by the Democratic party in well over a decade, I can indeed see the logic and the internal consistency of conservatism.

The single author who most deeply influenced my personal philosophy is well-known -- even infamous -- for his conservative views, particularly later in life. I may have reached different conclusions than he did, but I still hold his opinions and his thought processes in the deepest respect.

I think, however, that, were Robert Heinlein still alive, the regime of George Walker Bush would horrify him.

He has, in hafoc's words, "...betrayed the good conservative principles while throwing all his strength behind the bad ones."

Comments

[richardf8]

So you're going to vote for the party that defends the fetus in the womb, but abandons it when it leaves the womb?

The Republicans would have a credible case if, hand-in-hand with their anti-abortion policies, they were committed to building the support structures to make parenting that child whose "right to life" they insist upon feasible. Instead, under welfare reform, they have increased required hours working while decreasing support for childcare. The moment a woman gives birth to the child they insisted she carry to term, she becomes a "welfare queen" worthy only of contempt and condemnation. And studies have shown that pregnancy and STD rates tend to be higher among people who have taken "abstinence pledges" and become secually active than among those who actually learned about birth control.

Until the Republicans show the kind of commitment to supporting mothers and children (and that means points 1-3 of your platform up there) that Democrats traditionally have, their "pro-life" stance remains the worst sort of hypocrisy -- using the baby to punish the mother for ever having had sex in the first place. That does not strike me as very life affirming.

I realize I'm not going to turn you on this issue, but I do want to give you at least that to think about.

[pathia.livejournal.com]

Oh, believe me I think about it quite alot, but to sum it up very simply to me.

A shitty life is better than no life, in my opinion.

[richardf8]

Single Issue Voter, Eh? Well here's your boy: Michael Badnarik He's a pro-life states-rightist. And what's more, if you cast your vote for him, chances are you won't be jeopardizing the rest of your platform either.

[ssthisto.livejournal.com]

Tell that to the babies/children killed/maimed/damaged/abused by their parents either directly or through neglect. Maybe if they'd never been born, they wouldn't have suffered.

Suffering is far worse than death.

[pathia.livejournal.com]

Then let the kid his or her life on their own terms when they are old enough. I want people to have the CHOICE of living.

[ssthisto.livejournal.com]

But by their parents choosing to give birth to them, they aren't given a choice as to whether they want to live or not. They're being told they WILL live.

And certainly, when they're born to abusive, murderous parents, they're not given an educated choice as to whether they want to die early in pregnancy before they can suffer or be born, suffer and then die early in life. When they're born to parents who didn't take care of themselves while pregnant, they don't have a choice about being born as drug addicts, HIV positive, or with birth defects, some so severe that they'll cause death anyway.

And from a position of someone who knows - young adults can't always choose to end their lives either on their own terms. I was stopped - and my intent has always been and will always be that *I* will choose the time, place and means, not illness or old age.

Even adults get told they WILL live. There's no choice there.

[pathia.livejournal.com]

The vast majority of abortions, at least here in the states, are by middle to upper class white women, who just 'don't feel like having a baby right now' and forgot use some sort of contraceptive.

This is why I am so passionate about it, because abortion provides a way out that shunts maturity and responsibility for one's actions. You are the first woman I have ever met that is actually happy she got an abortion, most others I know are morbidly depressed if they think about it/ I knew a four or five other girls who got pregnant/abortions in high school. Two others committed suicide over it too later, though my HS in general was very screwed up. We had nearly 20 people do it over the time I was there, even a teacher.

I would be happiest if people should grow up enough that abortion is uncommon by virtue of education WITHOUT banning it.