Film at 11: No Velociraptors

[athelind]

Restaurant Says "NO" to Screaming Children

Excerpt the First:

A restaurant in Carolina Beach is stirring up controversy over a couple of signs reading, "Screaming children will not be tolerated."

Excerpt the Second:

"I've never seen a restaurant say, don't bring your screaming kids in here," said Ashley Heflin, who is a mom of two. "You can't help it if your kids scream."

YES. YES, YOU CAN.

You can either pay attention to them -- and that includes "discipline", if need be -- or you can stay the BLEEP home and take care of them.

You can even find a baby sitter, if you just need some out-of-the-house time and a break from parenting.

When I first reacted to this story, hoodahdc said, "Athe is angry about babies."

No, Athe is angry about parents.

Nine times out of ten, when I see some kid screaming its head off in a restaurant or a mall or in my BLEEPing store, the parents are blithely ignoring it and doing their damnedest to hold a conversation over their progeny's howls.

I would, for the record, consider the stereotypical parental brush-off of "not now, dear, Mommy's talking" that is media shorthand for "parental neglect" vastly superior to the parents I see who flat-out ignore their offspring.

So yes. YES. Hooray for Brenda Armes, and I hope beyond hope that she's the harbinger of a trend.

Comments

[araquan.livejournal.com]

This. Yes, this.

[reveille-d.livejournal.com]

I'm not a parent of human children, so I don't know, but doesn't giving them the attention they're screaming for encourage them to scream anytime they want attention? Or are you saying that if they paid attention in the first place, they wouldn't scream?

[athelind.livejournal.com]

"You need to be quiet now" counts as "attention".

So does, "we are going home right now if you keep that up."

And, while it may have fallen out of favor, so does **SMACK!!**

Any of these options count as better parenting than simply ignoring your caterwauling crotch dropping and the effect they have on the people around you.

I'd like to apply that last one to whatever genius came up with "just let them scream and scream and scream and scream, because paying attention just gives them what they want."

It doesn't work.

Clarifying abit:

Human children are hardwired to want attention -- acknowledgement -- from the adults in their lives. Providing that attention and acknowledgement is the appropriate role of the parent, and part of that attention is, in fact, notifying your children when their behavior has stepped outside the bounds of what is appropriate. If you do not acknowledge them when they scream, you are a) condoning public screaming as appropriate behavior and b) encouraging them to scream even more loudly in an attempt to wring some affection out of Wire Mother.

[velvetpage.livejournal.com]

I'd like to apply that last one to whatever genius came up with "just let them scream and scream and scream and scream, because paying attention just gives them what they want."

It doesn't work.

It DOES work, but not in isolation. It has to be accompanied by, "We'll do fun things again when you stop behaving like that," or "I'm not going to give you what you want when you're being bad to get it." The kids have to know that when they're not tantrumming, they're going to get positive attention from their parents.

And that is not a good strategy for out in public.

My general modus operandi when my kids were little enough for this to be common (more common with Claire than with Elizabeth, due to personality) was to give one warning: "If yo keep that up, [treat I promised them at the end of the period where they need to be good] will not be happening and we will be going to sit [someplace where nobody can hear us, usually the car depending on weather] until everyone else is done their meal. Then [other parent] will sit with you while I finish MY meal." If they stopped crying in the middle, I'd ask them if they were ready to try the restaurant again. It only happened a couple of times.

It's harder in grocery stores, for example - parents often don't have the option of simply walking out and leaving their cart, because they need to buy food and there's nobody to watch their kid while they do. I have a lot of sympathy for parents of crying children in situations like that - they're between a rock and a hard place in terms of discipline options.

When a child misbehaves, smack the parents.

[athelind.livejournal.com]

Y'know, in grocery stores, I tend to tune it out, or have some sympathy for the parents.

I do not sell the necessities of life. I sell comic books, toys, and overpriced collectibles, largely based on cartoon characters.

There is nothing that fills me with deeper contempt for my own hobbies than watching a parent completely ignore his or her squalling children so that they can buy toys for themselves.

And let me be clear: I mean completely. Child not just squalling randomly, but actively trying to share in their parent's interests: "Ooh! Look at this! Look at this! Look at this!"

And the parent doesn't even treat them with respect enough to say, "hold on" or "not now" or "I'm trying to talk to the gentleman behind the counter". They don't even respect their child enough to say "shut up". They just keep talking to Your Obedient Register Monkey, occasionally shoving their child out of the way when the poor kid sticks something in their face just to get some glimmer of attention from their uncaring gene donor.

[eclipsegryph.livejournal.com]

Now they just need to add this to airlines. :p

[moonfires.livejournal.com]

Babies go in cargo with the pets. :D

[hafoc.livejournal.com]

I'm appalled at your insensitivity. That is cruel to the pets.

[athelind.livejournal.com]

"I'm sorry, but you're going to have to step outside until your child calms down."

I'm in favor of this, but I can see how there might be some technical difficulties.

[araquan.livejournal.com]

Those just form a stronger incentive.

Besides, Southwest Airlines already offers passengers the option of stepping out onto the wings for a smoke break.

[tombfyre.livejournal.com]

Maybe they should install airlocks on passenger planes. :3 For an additional charge, the airline will even provide parachutes and snacks for the ride down.

[svashtar.livejournal.com]

When I acted up in public, my parents would drag me outside, sit me on the cement, and tell me, "When you can behave, we'll go back inside."

Abuse? Hardly. I'm stubborn. Always have been. My parents missed a few meals because I'd sit on the ground and sulk. But the point is, they would *do* something about my behavior, rather than allow me to scream in a restaurant or movie theater.

When you sulk long enough, you get bored.

[the-gneech.livejournal.com]

Reminds me of the coffee shop that posted a sign, "Unattended children will be given free coffee and a puppy."

-The Gneech

Gneech - please see userpic :)

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

My parents were also of the "take the troublesome child outside and Have Words" school of thought. When my boy starts acting up, we stop what we're doing, I kneel so I'm at his eye level, and state quietly, emphatically, that his behaviour is unacceptable and guarantees that he's not going to get [item he's having a tantrum over]. This threat is most effective when we're at Disneyland, because being able to say "I'll take you home and let Nana (his grandmother) watch you for the rest of the day, and I'll come back here and have fun without you" is hardly empty at all - we live 30 miles from the park and I have free parking.

I love my son immensely, and I will not see him turn into a self-absorbed, self-entitled git with no clue on how to behave in public. I loathe children who can't behave in a restaurant, and I absolutely detest the parents which allow that behaviour to continue unchecked.

[kymri.livejournal.com]

Bad parenting is rampant and it's most visible sign (right now) is this sort of behavior. Other visible signs will be observable as these kids grow up. Some of it is already observable in the parents who are letting their kids run rampant. Two generations of 'benign' neglect as parenting style.

[toob.livejournal.com]

People without kids are always such experts in how they ought to be raised.

[toob.livejournal.com]

DAMN that was snarky. *gropes for his coffee*

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

but true (says a guy without children).

[athelind.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I actually count as a "person without kids" anymore.

I'm just sayin'.

[toob.livejournal.com]

Did you ever raise a child that was under the age of, say, seven?

I've never waterboarded anybody, but I have pretty strong opinions on THAT, too.

[athelind.livejournal.com]

Nope.

Nor do I plan to, because I know that I'm a self-absorbed, ill-tempered git.

However, I do know many, many parents, and have in fact discussed the principles of childrearing with them regularly and at length.

I also know far too many self-absorbed, ill-tempered gits who went ahead and had kids anyway.

The positions I express are, by and large, based on a synthesis of the positions held by actual parents, weighted by empirical results.

[notthebuddha.livejournal.com]

I'm a parent of one and co-raiser of several more, and what our host has to say about this is largely correct in my experience. There are strategies to deal with poor behavior, some work better than others for different kids, but outside of some gross disabilities or equally disfunctional home environment (both with which I have some experience as well), there's rarely a good reason to let a young child continue their obnoxious display in public instead of packing them up to deal with the issue elsewhere.

[tombfyre.livejournal.com]

I've started to see some eating establishments banning children entirely, seeing as parents can't be bothered to raise the things properly. ^^() Kudos to them, for taking a stand and not just putting up with the noise anymore.

[athelind.livejournal.com]

And if it ever comes down to a court case:

"You can't discriminate against parents with children."

"We'll start serving hard liquor."

"... a lot of places serve cocktails. That doesn't automatically make you a 21-and-up establishment."

"We'll bring in strippers."

"..."

[tombfyre.livejournal.com]

Heh heh, yeah that might further things along. :3 I was being told by a friend of mine about some article she'd read, about an adult-only town. No children allowed within city limits, or something like that. Unfortunately she was low on details, and I've never been able to find what she was talking about anywhere online. Or for that matter, if it was something happening, or just a conceptual idea.

That kind of extreme would be a PR nightmare to say the least. ^^() No minors within city limits, crazy shit!

[hafoc.livejournal.com]

Actually, I thought of that. I figured if I ever ran a restaurant I'd get one of those frowzy saloon nudes and put it on the wall-- or maybe just a 3x5 inch nekkid lady pasted to the wall in some obscure corner-- and say "Nope, we can't let the kids in, we gots adult images with full nudity on the walls."

[moonfires.livejournal.com]

I've checked with the parental units on this, and gotten two pieces of information. First, there is such a thing as too young to be taken to a place of public accommodation, and both me and my brother were never taken "out" until we were old enough to behave. Second, we were taught there is a way to behave in public, and if you can't, you won't be in public. Parents don't even handle the "too young" right anymore. I see them feeding them at the table in the restaurants or not at all. According to my mother, the trick was to feed the baby before even leaving so if you had to bring them, they'd be out cold in food coma :D and have a bagel to shove into their mouth if they're teething.

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

You don't have children, do you? Ever babysat? Ever, yourself, had a temper tantrum and become unreasonable?

I've seen far more irate and unreasonable or just loud and obnoxious adults than I have seen screaming children.

[athelind.livejournal.com]

*DEEEEEP breath* I'm going to try to say this without spewing bitterness:

The fact that I am no longer serving in loco parentis is one of the few positive things to come out of my impending divorce.

[gatewalker.livejournal.com]

Hell of a plus though. But in all fairness, even that one's not so bad in public, it's at home where he gets bad(from my experience which IS thankfully a touch more limited then yours with him).

Now speaking as someone with a sprogling(and I've been around since he was 3, so this very much does count), yeah, I'm in complete agreement. Child won't calm down? You take the child and leave. My other half and I have walked out of restaraunts and other public places when he was too young and too ill behaved.

"No Children Allowed" would be going a bit too far I think, but a notice that management WILL ask you to leave if your child won't calm down? Pefectly fair.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but what's your point?

Yes, adults can behave badly in public.
In restaurants of quality, an adult comporting himself so poorly as to disrupt the dining experience for everyone else will be asked to leave</>.

[kinkyturtle.livejournal.com]

You dare to impugn the Holy Screaming of our All-Important Lord and Master, the Small Child?! Blasphemer!

(Seriously, what is with the snarky and critical comments you're getting? I agree with you that a restaurant untainted by the screams of small children is both possible and desirable.)

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Well, y'know, people who don't repair cars for a living aren't entitled to criticize a repair job that leaves the brakes completely inoperable. Just like people who aren't doctors aren't allowed to condemn a physician whose patients leave sicker than they arrived.

[kinkyturtle.livejournal.com]

Ohhh right, *that* kind of "logic".