Film at 11: Cookies > Waterboarding

[athelind]

Via boingboing:

Bacon may not make everything better, but cookies do:

FBI Interrogator Reports That Cookies Work Better Than Torture.

This is Pure Undiluted Coyote In Action: the reprehensible deeds of the arrogant and powerful are countered by something that is, at first glance, absurd.

Part of me wants to make a funny, light-hearted post about the wonders of baked goods, full of references to Eddie Izzard and '80s cartoons about Being Nice and '70s superheroes defeating the villains with Hostess Fruit Pies.

Part of me wants to go on a self-righteous tear about how the vile nature of torture is compounded by its ineffectiveness.

Look at the icon: which part do you think won this one?

It's particularly ironic because those who try to defend "enhanced interrogation" love to accuse their opponents of "coddling" terrorist suspect. "Maybe we should just serve them tea and cookies, instead! That's sure to get them to talk!"

Guess what? It does, assholes.

Treating people as people, as human beings, goes a long way toward getting them to see you as human in turn.

Those who defend and support torture don't give a damn about facts or evidence. They don't care about getting useful or accurate information out of these prisoners. They don't even care about the "ticking time bomb" scenario gleaned from their careful, in-depth research into Kiefer Sutherland.

They just want to hurt people, or have people hurt in their name. They just want to cause pain. They don't care about terrorism or any of the rest of it; 9/11 just gave them a justification to do what they've always wanted to do, to indulge their vicious cruelty, and to assert loudly and contemptuously that any other approach is naive and weak.

It is indefensible that I live in a nation that can even debate this issue.

Not when the alternative is cookies.

---

Comments

[toob.livejournal.com]

Cake? Or DEATH?

[kinkyturtle.livejournal.com]

Erm, cake, please.

[araquan.livejournal.com]

Depends... what kind of cake?

[jimrob.livejournal.com]

It makes me conjure a cop show. 'Screw this. Let's get this m_____f____r to talk. Ronson: you're on biscuits. Smits: put the kettle on.'

It seems really obvious that people are more open when they're comfortable and trusted. Anyone who really cares about justice should be able to put aside the hatred that underlies torture (and it surely does) and treat their enemy decently - even if just to get the information they want.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

It comes as no surprise to me that cookies > waterboarding.

My elementary school teacher gave us a simple way to remember which direction the < and > signs went: it's a mouth, and it wants to eat the bigger number.

Cookies or waterboarding? I know which I'd rather eat.

[cpxbrex.livejournal.com]

I like you. You can come over and fuck my sister. :)

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

...

That is easily the oddest compliment I've gotten this month.

[araquan.livejournal.com]

Mine did the same thing. With the numbers that is. And the mouth.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Actually, now that I think back, it was a substitute who did that. First explanation was "points to the smaller number".

And, presumably, laughs like Nelson.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Somewhat more seriously, it wasn't even that he was served cookies. It's that he was diabetic and was served sugar-free cookies.

Basic. Human. Decency.

What a concept.

[tombfyre.livejournal.com]

Ahh, if only we lived in a world where tea and cookies was the solution. Torture doesn't really work anyways, so I really agree with your statements. They're just looking to cause some pain.

The truly disturbing thing would be if they're *enjoying* it. :p

[cpxbrex.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Athe's post is, y'know, that tea and cookies do work. It is the solution. :)

And of course they're enjoying it. *sighs*

[tombfyre.livejournal.com]

I should have phrased it better. ^^ I meant the *accepted* solution, and the commonly practiced one.

[cpxbrex.livejournal.com]

Fair nuff! I'm a little drunk so maybe reading things into things. You DO seem a good sort. ;)

[tombfyre.livejournal.com]

Its all good. ^^ Now, lets enjoy coffee and baked goods. They make for bigger dragons, don'tcha know.

[kfops.livejournal.com]

I think I actually heard the interview about this on the radio not that long ago... it was pretty interesting and made sense to me. If you're interested I can try and find the recording.

[cpxbrex.livejournal.com]

I suspect you know I feel this way but, yeah, I'm with you. I'm . . . sad and angry and sickened that torture is being discussed at all. Even beyond the fact that I really want to be a good person living in a country full of other good people doing good things for the world, there's the fact it doesn't work and this has been known for decades. Modern interrogation techniques are downright scientific and they reject torture not simply because of moral grounds (tho' even if torture was effective I would still reject it on moral grounds) but because it does not work.

[athelind.livejournal.com]

I'd reject it on moral grounds, too, even if it "worked". The fact that it doesn't work just makes me want to scream like the game show host from Weird Al's UHF: "STOOPID! YOU SO STOOPID!"

[cpxbrex.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I feel that! There is no grounds on which torture can be argued other than it makes some assholes feel macho. The only real justification for torture, as opposed to the filthy lies that spread about it, is it makes some people feel badass. That some people like it. Ugh.

[hafoc.livejournal.com]

I have wondered what it is that bothered me about your statement that "They just want to hurt people." I think you're right about it, in effect. But I also think we're talking about another problem of Wars on Things.

It would be tedious to list the well-known examples where those who wish to control followers do so by training those followers to see "the enemy" as less than human. It suddenly occurs to me that things like the Wah on Terra or the War on Drugs are particularly quick and effective ways to do this. We're not throwing people into concentration camps and torturing them. We're not destroying a teenager's life over a couple of whacky tabaccy cigarettes. No, we're fighting Terra! We're fighting Drugs! No living, breathing, feeling people involved at all. And you're not Soft on Terra, are you?

You don't have to convince your sheep that the enemy is less than human. Instead you've prevented them from seeing that humans are involved at all.

Now the question is, how much of that blindness among the followers is unthinking loyalty to their leaders, and how much of it is willful?

[hafoc.livejournal.com]

...and by the way, Jesse Ventura said something I've been pondering. He said it on The View, and he said it better than I have. It was something like:

"Let me waterboard you and I'll have you confessing to the Sharon Tate murders."

Because of course ordinary, untrained people (if not everybody) will say anything at all to get the pain to stop. That's a lesson we SUPPOSEDLY learned centuries ago from the Church and its witch hunts.